Saturday, August 18, 2007

Catholic Canon Missing a Book?


Pope John Paul II said the following regarding Muslims:

“Continuing our discussion of inter-religious dialogue, today we will reflect on dialogue with Muslims, who "together with us adore the one, merciful God" (Lumen gentium, n. 16; cf. CCC, n. 841). The Church has a high regard for them, convinced that their faith in the transcendent God contributes to building a new human family based on the highest aspirations of the human heart….

We Christians joyfully recognize the religious values we have in common with Islam. Today I would like to repeat what I said to young Muslims some years ago in Casablanca: "We believe in the same God, the one God, the living God, the God who created the world and brings his creatures to their perfection"


One of the Catholic commenters on my post about the One True Church of Allah said:

“According to the Qu'ran. Allah is the God of Abraham, Issaac and Joseph.”


If the Catholic position is correct, that the Catholics and Muslims worship the same God, then it seems to me that the Roman Catholic Church is missing a large portion of their canon – the Qu’ran. Since Muslims believe that the Qu’ran is God’s revealed word and the Catholics believe in the same God, then the Roman Catholic Church needs to encompass this divine revelation as it’s own to be consistent.

If the Roman Catholic Church does not believe the Qu’ran is the inspired Word of God, then the Church is mistaken in its belief that the Muslims worship the God of Abraham since the source of that proclamation comes from the Qu’ran. It is inconsistent to state that Catholics and Muslims share the same one true God but dismiss the divine, written revelation made to the Muslims.

One has to wonder how a supposedly infallible organization could make such a blunder.

13 comments:

kmerian said...

Carrie. Where in the world do you get the idea that because Catholics say that Christians and Muslims worship the same God, that we then place the Qu'ran as equal to the Bible?

Nothing in my post says that, nothing in what JPII said claims that. As a matter of fact, you still have not posted my quote from "Crossing the Threshold of Hope" Where JPII states that the Qu'ran is not an accurate portrayal of God, nor is there any salvation in Islam.

You are twisting words to make them say something that no one is saying.

Carrie said...

kmerian,

You are completely missing the point of my post.

Reginald de Piperno said...

Since you haven't stated what your point is, Carrie, he can hardly be blamed.

This is a very impolite game you're playing: keep your point unstated, then act like your interlocutors are just dolts when they fail to guess what it is.

Say what you mean.

Thank you.

kmerian said...

Your point is based on a faulty premise. Even a document loaded with falsehoods can have some truth in it. Muslims believe that they are worshipping the God of Abraham. Acknowledging that fact, does not mean that I automatically acknowledge that the entire Qu'ran is true.

I am sure that there are some things in the Catholic Catechism that you would agree with. Should I then claim that by recognizing those truths, you MUST recognize the truth of every other statement? Of course not.

Carrie said...

Your point is based on a faulty premise.

I took my example to an extreme to make the point, but I don’t agree that the premise is faulty.

Islamic faith is based on the Qu’ran, which according to Islam is the written word of Allah (as the bible is the written word of God). Now, you either believe that the Qu’ran is the inspired word of God or you don’t. If it is not, then the faith based upon that book is false as is the god that supposedly wrote it.

Islam is a false religion which encompasses some Christian terminology. The fact that Islam uses some of the same buzz words makes it no more true than Mormonism. There is only one true God and he has only revealed himself in one way – that way is documented through the Bible and the Bible alone.

You cannot say that Muslims worship the same God but then consider the divine source of their beliefs as uninspired. You cannot pick and chose your truths. Tell me, what percentage of the Qu’ran is true? What percentage do you need to be true to qualify as worshipping the same God?

Muslims believe that they are worshipping the God of Abraham.

So because they “believe it” that makes it true? Try reading some of the Qu’ran and tell me if Allah sounds anything like the God of the Bible.

kmerian said...

I don't know what percentage of the Qu'ran is true. I do know that the passage that states that the God of Abraham, Issac and Joseph is the one true God, is true.

Islam is a false religion. I am not arguing that it is valid, nor am I arguing that it is a valid way to salvation.

Ellen said...

What percentage of Muslims in the world speak Arabic?

Carrie said...

Islam is a false religion.

How can it be false if it worships the same God?

Your point of view makes absolutley no sense. You either believe in the one true God or you don't. If you are following a false religion then by definition the god of that religion is false.

kmerian said...

A religion is false if it has an improper understanding of God. Any religion no matter how flawed its theology can have some truth in it.

Ellen said...

Why is it so important to you that you defend an errant bishop in his appeal to call the Creator, Jehovah, the I AM, by the name that the followers of the false religion of Islam call their god?

Leo said...

Psalms 95:5- “For all the gods of the Gentiles are devils…”

1 Cor. 10:20- “But the things which the heathens sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God. And I would not that you should be made partakers with devils.”

If we truly profess the scriptures, we must let the world know that the gods of all of the infidels are devils, and not the one true God.

The Catholic religion does not esteem false religions nor the enemies of God, the devils:


Pope Leo X, Fifth Lateran Council, Session 12, March 16, 1517: “Our aim is to crush the Turks and other infidels standing firm in the eastern and southern regions. They treat the way of true light and salvation with complete contempt and totally unyielding blindness; they attack the life-giving cross on which our Saviour willed to accept death so that by dying He might destroy death, and by the ineffable mystery of His most holy life He might restore life; and they make themselves hateful enemies of God and most bitter persecutors of the Christian religion.”

Pope Callixtus III: “I vow to… exalt the true Faith, and to extirpate the diabolical sect of the reprobate and faithless Mahomet [Islam] in the East.”

The God of the infidel Mohammetans is not God almighty, for it is the not blessed Trinity, is NOT the one true God, but a devil which the infidels adore to their own damnation.

Leo said...

Carrie said... I took my example to an extreme to make the point, but I don’t agree that the premise is faulty.

Islamic faith is based on the Qu’ran, which according to Islam is the written word of Allah (as the bible is the written word of God). Now, you either believe that the Qu’ran is the inspired word of God or you don’t. If it is not, then the faith based upon that book is false as is the god that supposedly wrote it.

Islam is a false religion which encompasses some Christian terminology. The fact that Islam uses some of the same buzz words makes it no more true than Mormonism. There is only one true God and he has only revealed himself in one way – that way is documented through the Bible and the Bible alone.

You cannot say that Muslims worship the same God but then consider the divine source of their beliefs as uninspired. You cannot pick and chose your truths. Tell me, what percentage of the Qu’ran is true? What percentage do you need to be true to qualify as worshipping the same God?

Muslims believe that they are worshipping the God of Abraham.

So because they “believe it” that makes it true? Try reading some of the Qu’ran and tell me if Allah sounds anything like the God of the Bible.


A very good deduction, and that is why we declare that Islam is a false religion, worshipping a false god, and that only the Trinity is true God, and thus why we insist that there is only one true Church, outside of which we believe that no one is saved, not even the Mohammetan.

Carrie said...

A very good deduction, and that is why we declare that Islam is a false religion, worshipping a false god, and that only the Trinity is true God, and thus why we insist that there is only one true Church, outside of which we believe that no one is saved, not even the Mohammetan.

Which is not the mainstream Roman Catholic teaching.

I assume you are either a traditionalist or sedevacantist?