tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5503108925123904743.post5063093989889079344..comments2023-04-01T05:13:20.099-07:00Comments on But These Are Written: Early Church Father on Sola ScripturaCarriehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04697072499214349759noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5503108925123904743.post-30746559598530851902007-08-02T15:21:00.000-07:002007-08-02T15:21:00.000-07:00If you're going to say that someone believed in so...If you're going to say that someone believed in sola scriptura, quotations that show that they <I>didn't</I> believe in "Scripture <I>alone</I>" most certainly do trump you. :-)Fred Noltiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10203885485191808284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5503108925123904743.post-4250312029021399092007-08-02T09:12:00.000-07:002007-08-02T09:12:00.000-07:00Reginald, I don't see how your quotes say that tra...Reginald, <BR/><BR/>I don't see how your quotes say that tradition is considered equally authoritative to scripture. I also don't see how your quotes trump my quotes.Carriehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04697072499214349759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5503108925123904743.post-60124454184139450522007-08-01T05:00:00.000-07:002007-08-01T05:00:00.000-07:00Carrie - Cyril did not believe in sola scriptura."...Carrie - Cyril did not believe in sola scriptura.<BR/><BR/>"Of these read the two and twenty books, but have nothing to do with the apocryphal writings. Study earnestly these only which we read openly in the Church. Far wiser and more pious than thyself were the Apostles, and the bishops of old time, the presidents of the Church who handed down these books. Being therefore a child of the Church, trench thou not upon its statutes" (<A HREF="http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/310104.htm" REL="nofollow">Catehetical Lecture 4:35</A>).<BR/><BR/>Clearly he is resting the authority of the Scriptures here upon the authority of the Church and apostolic succession.Fred Noltiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10203885485191808284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5503108925123904743.post-42117218881721513532007-08-01T04:41:00.000-07:002007-08-01T04:41:00.000-07:00Carrie - Basil the Great did not believe in sola s...Carrie - <BR/><BR/>Basil the Great did not believe in sola scriptura.<BR/><BR/>"Let us now investigate what are our common conceptions concerning the Spirit, as well those which have been gathered by us from Holy Scripture concerning It as those which we have received from the unwritten tradition of the Fathers" (On the Holy Spirit, <A HREF="http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3203.htm" REL="nofollow">9:22</A>).<BR/><BR/>"Time will fail me if I attempt to recount the unwritten mysteries of the Church. Of the rest I say nothing; but of the very confession of our faith in Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, what is the written source? If it be granted that, as we are baptized, so also under the obligation to believe, we make our confession in like terms as our baptism, in accordance with the tradition of our baptism and in conformity with the principles of true religion, let our opponents grant us too the right to be as consistent in our ascription of glory as in our confession of faith. If they deprecate our doxology on the ground that it lacks written authority, let them give us the written evidence for the confession of our faith and the other matters which we have enumerated. While the unwritten traditions are so many, and their bearing on "the mystery of godliness is so important, can they refuse to allow us a single word which has come down to us from the Fathers; - which we found, derived from untutored custom, abiding in unperverted churches; - a word for which the arguments are strong, and which contributes in no small degree to the completeness of the force of the mystery?" (<I>ibid.</I>, <A HREF="http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3203.htm" REL="nofollow">27:67</A>)<BR/><BR/>"I hold it apostolic to abide also by the unwritten traditions" (<I>ibid.</I>, <A HREF="http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3203.htm" REL="nofollow">29:71</A>).Fred Noltiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10203885485191808284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5503108925123904743.post-73382109977239385922007-08-01T04:30:00.000-07:002007-08-01T04:30:00.000-07:00Carrie - it is simply not true that Augustine beli...Carrie - it is simply not true that Augustine believed in sola scriptura.<BR/><BR/>"[I]f you acknowledge the supreme authority of Scripture, you should recognise that authority which from the time of Christ Himself, through the ministry of His apostles, and through a regular succession of bishops in the seats of the apostles, has been preserved to our own day throughout the whole world, with a reputation known to all" (Augustine, Contra Faustus, <A HREF="http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/140633.htm" REL="nofollow">33:9</A>).<BR/><BR/>"As to those other things which we hold on the authority, not of Scripture, but of tradition, and which are observed throughout the whole world, it may be understood that they are held as approved and instituted either by the apostles themselves, or by plenary Councils, whose authority in the Church is most useful, ...<BR/><BR/>For often have I perceived, with extreme sorrow, many disquietudes caused to weak brethren by the contentious pertinacity or superstitious vacillation of some who, in matters of this kind, which do not admit of final decision by the authority of Holy Scripture, or by the tradition of the universal Church"<BR/>(Augustine, Letter to Januarius, <A HREF="http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1102054.htm" REL="nofollow">54:1</A>).<BR/><BR/>"And this custom, coming, I suppose, from apostolical tradition (like many other things which are held to have been handed down under their actual sanction, because they are preserved throughout the whole Church, though they are not found either in their letters, or in the Councils of their successors)..." (Augustine, On Baptism, <A HREF="http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/14082.htm" REL="nofollow">2:7:12</A>).Fred Noltiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10203885485191808284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5503108925123904743.post-76522798183593192682007-07-27T14:51:00.000-07:002007-07-27T14:51:00.000-07:00Hi Carrie,Just wanted to let you know the new link...Hi Carrie,<BR/><BR/>Just wanted to let you know the new link<BR/><BR/>http://gojira-thestompingground.blogspot.com/<BR/><BR/>The other one no longer works. :~(<BR/><BR/>*********************************<BR/><BR/>Excellent quotes!Gojirahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12638911872713448018noreply@blogger.com